Bassoon buying

1) The Fox 220/240 would be my first suggestion. I play at the college level, and most of the students in your situation have a 240. They are very reliable instruments as far as I've seen. If you ever have problems with it, the Fox company is excellent to work with! Puchners are also good instruments. Their scales are not quite as even as the Fox, but I like their tone better. That's just a matter of preference: intonation or tone. Both can be helped by reeds. Moosman also has some good bassoons. One bassoon major I know played on one throughout her undergrad. I haven't tried them though. Sadly, those are the only three companies I've been exposed to to any significant degree.

2) I have a 601, which I believe is a hybrid of the long and short bore. As you've stated, the shorter bore will have more pitch problems, but you can get a bigger/brighter sound. Long bores are more stable pitch wise, but have more of a "second bassoon" sound quality. I haven't ever had the chance to compare the two side by side...I'd suggest trying them both out.

3) If a bassoon is well cared for, it will last forever theoretically. A few generations for sure. Typically, it is an instrument that gets better with age; as the wood hardens I guess. It's not like an oboe; you don't have to buy a new one every so often.

Good luck with the search!

1) I was in your exact situation... I play tested both 220 and 240 and couldn't tell a difference. So then I went with the cheaper one (220 I believe)... and I love it.
2) I honestly couldn't tell, and I think it's just one of those things that people make a bigger deal about then it really is- especially if you aren't going to be majoring in music or anything, it really honestly is not THAT big of a deal.
3) As long as you are alive :) My teacher in college is playing on a 30 year old one and it's still fine!

I also have a 220, which I love. I've played it for twelve years and am very very happy with it. Can't offer very much useful advice apart from that, as it's the only instrument I've played on since abandoning a ghastly plastic school instrument years ago...

The 240 tends to be more preferred by semi-professional players while the 220 is often looked at as more of a student line instrument. The 240 is more work to play well but has the potential for greater flexibility.

Here comes my obligatory mention of Moosmann horns:
The Fox 240 is a reliable instrument and it's easy to come by. Because it's a well respected model it's got good rapport with teachers. I wouldn't rule out the comparable Moosmann though. It's the model 100A, and you'll find that it might give you the same projection potential as the 240, but will have different pitch tendencies that you may prefer. The bore design and the wood it's made out of is different than the Fox horns, so you might find you like one over the other. Justin Miller is the American rep for them, his website is www.millermarketingco.com. You can arrange for a trial of these instruments though him.

I would recommend Puchner horns as well, but the only "student" model is basically a less fully featured version of their pro line horn, so it'll be more expensive than what you are looking at I think.

If you get a 240, consider getting a few upgrades. The big three are (probably in reverse order):
1. Professional U tube upgrade (through the Fox factory)
2. High Resonance Bell (also directly through Fox)
3. A really great bocal (Heckel bocals consistently do very well on these horns)

As far as age goes, many professionals are playing on Heckels that were built in the 1920's or so. Expect an instrument that is regularly serviced and well maintained to last longer than you.

My teacher plays on his father's bassoon, which is at least 50 years old.

When I graduated high school I was in the same position and decided to go with the Fox 240. The horn always performs well for me and since I am not a music major, it suits my needs perfectly for playing in various ensembles when I get the opportunity. I recommend it for you to consider as well.

As for age, bassoons are hardy instruments. During high school I was fortunate to play a 1904 Heckel bassoon with pre WW I bocals with original case. Once I graduated it was passed on to another student to play and enjoy.

How the heck did you get to play on a 1904 Heckel?! Those things aren't exactly (or at least shouldn't be!) just lying around! Story, please!!!

Although, on a related tangent, my Puchner was made in 1969 and it's wonderful.

220

I'm at grad school with my 220 and a Polissi bocal. I also play the schools pre-war Heckel. While I love the Heckel, and other older horns, the new ones (less than 50 years old) play SO much easier. I actually prefer to play my 220.

Yes, get the best horn you can afford, but as for the 220 being a "student" horn, I have been playing semi-professionally for the last five years and never had a problem. I know I don't play enough seriously professional gigs to need more horn. And if you don't think you'll be joining a major symphony someday, don't let someone talk you into a crazy horn and 10K more in cost. (Plus if you do decide you want to go on, there will probably be a school horn, or some lovely person who lets you barrow an appropriate horn until you decide which professional one you want, and even if you do get a snazzy horn now, what if your new super amazing teacher wants you to have a different one? One of my best friends is in that place right now; it isn't very comfortable. See where buying a crazy expensive horn can sometimes backfire?)

The 220 is a great reliable horn. I've never had pitch problems with it, even when I've been in Japan or Europe where the climate is very different from where I normally play.

If you aren't sure between the two, see if you can try out both and have someone listen to your playing (probably your teacher). Then decide based on which one you like the best.

I'm a long bore person myself. I prefer to get the tambre and pitch changes via bocals. If you can try other bocals at the same time you are trying your horn do it. I was amazed at the difference a bocal makes.

I would second "hooya" though and say to take a look at the Moosmann's. The new ones are amazing. Its the only horn I've ever tried and then seriously thought about switching horns.

And whatever you choose, as long as it is taken care of will last your life, and probably your kids lives.


Good luck! I know buying a horn is stressful, but try and enjoy it. You'll know the horn you want when you play it.

Wow, it's nice to find a place where everyone is so knowlegable about the bassoon!
i just recently got back on livejournal

Currently i'm a sophmore undergrad at Kent State university, under the Teachings of Dr. Debolt.
They spoiled me , and i've been playing on a pretty 201 Fox, if you can afford it, i'd go for it, but yes, i've been told professionals play on 220's and 240's.

I think the decision is totally up to you, which you prefer more, because those models are totally acceptable in the professional music world.

I used to play on a schreiber myself, :) yes we love those, but you will notice a huge difference in playing a fox 220, 201 , or 240. i think a bassoon should last you a very very long time if you take care of it, lol. My professor is in his 70's i think, played all his life i don't think he's owned more than 3 or 4 bassoons!

Lucky him, he found a very nice heckel bassoon for a very good price, but i think that was along time ago.

The most important thing i think you need to consider here is
PRICES GO UP AFTER THE FiRST Of THE YEAR.
Fox is raising the prices on their bassoons a couple thousand up from what they are now for all orders after the first of the year :(

it sucks , i know. but if you can afford it, don't wait.

Another thing to ponder is, if you are planning to go to college for a bassoon major, you are able to use student loans to pay for your own instrument. if you are serious about becoming a bassoonist, do not pass up this opportunity. Student loans are your best friend! :)
I think you need to have your professor write a letter or give approval for the bank or w/e before you can use student loans on that.

well, GL to purchasing your bassoon! i gotta find a way to get my own soon too >.>;
hopefully i can use student loans and get one before the prices skyrocket !

I know this post is a little old and you may have bought a bassoon already, but if you haven't, I have some advice. I started on an almost-new (and wooden) Fox 222 my high school owned and when I graduated, I switched to a wood Selmer with a Fox box. The Selmer definately has a superior sound vs the Foxes I've played. I bought it used and had it overhauled by a great repair shop. Before I went to grad school, I started an apprenticeship in woodwind repair and learned how to keep my instrument in top condition so now it plays even better. Some important things to keep in mind on that front are that the tone of a bassoon is heavily influenced by the quality of the bocal and the tubing at the base of the boot joint, under the cap. Also, ask your repair shop for leather or cork pads only - not felt or bladder pads. Chances are, they'll do this anyways, but it's good to make sure becuase leather lasts much longer. Lastly, if you haven't yet developed an understanding of how the bassoon works and can tell when something mechanical is wacky, plan a yearly trip to the repair shop to keep your instrument in good condition. Lots of double reed players like to blame their reeds and forget the influence sometimes-invisible mechanical problems can have on tone and ease of playing. Also, I encountered a fair selection of bassoons of varying ages and makes in that job. The troubling thing is, in that selection and the two Foxes my high school owned, more than half appear to develop a crack in the bell at the tenon within a decade. That's pretty soon considering the life of good instruments. My clarinet is more than 50 years old now and has gorgeous tone. A bassoon should last that long too. Even knowing that these bassoons were all school horns and therefore probably pretty beat up in their lifetime, I still find that troubling. I also dislike seeing students take on thread-wrapped joints without knowing how to care for them so, even if you do choose Fox, remember that cork grease is for cork only and should never go near the threads. If the joints get too tight, take the instrument to a repair tech who's been trained to rewrap thread joints on bassoons and tell them the tenons are too tight and you need a layer or two of the thread wrap taken off. One of the many things I like about the Selmers is that they come with cork joints which any repair tech can fix and any student can care for. They may not be quite as durable as properly cared-for thread joints, but I've seen too many thread joints not properly cared for to consider that a serious downside to cork. My Selmer isn't the sort of model that you mention to a room of students bassoonists and they instantly comment on how lucky I am (like they did when they saw the Fox I played) but I have had a respected orchestra director compliment the tone quality during a rehearsal and that's worth more than name recognition. As other replies mention, there are other brands too but stick to the classics. The woodwind market has been flooded with the crappiest brands ever (cough, First Act, cough) which repair shops won't even touch, though bassoons are still safer than other instruments. When I was shopping, I didn't set out looking for any particular brand - I just found a great deal on this one used and bought it and I feel very lucky to have happened across it. Now I always recommend Selmers becuase I've been so amazingly happy with my own and I think they don't get the hype they deserve.

Very interesting comments.
I'm trying to understand the actual difference between "long bore" and "short bore" (I should say that English is not my mother tongue). As fas as I can understand, the bore is the internal tube in the wing joints and the boot joints, right? Now, the length of the tube controls the pitch and should reflect in the length of the joints. But, from the photographs, I couldn't see a size difference between models 220 and 240 for instance.
So, I was wondering whether the terms "long bore" and "short bore" were actually referring to a difference in tube diameter (rather than length).
That's just out of curiosity (being a scientist).

Thank you.